tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8267677579874715622.post4919119532649401917..comments2024-03-24T19:23:14.865-07:00Comments on Cave of the Dice Chucker: D4 Thieves Can Suck It RevisitedTimrod http://www.blogger.com/profile/15308269015770538709noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8267677579874715622.post-16579919249957858212013-10-31T11:42:07.074-07:002013-10-31T11:42:07.074-07:00"Any attempt to rationalize HP is insane"..."Any attempt to rationalize HP is insane"<br /><br />Odin gave us blogging for the very purpose of rationalizing the insane.Timrod https://www.blogger.com/profile/15308269015770538709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8267677579874715622.post-68899563277385015992013-10-31T10:20:31.010-07:002013-10-31T10:20:31.010-07:00As a beginner, you naturally ask (or assume you un...As a beginner, you naturally ask (or assume you understand) what hit points mean. Upon trivial inspection, you realize that HP do not accurately represent the real world analog of toughness (or your personal variation on the theme). IMNSHO, the system is irredeemable; you either accept it as a quirk and get used to it, you fenagle a bit with unsatisfying results, or you use a different game system. Any attempt to rationalize HP is insane.I concur with Chuckie's sentiment. nevertheless, if you buy the enchilada (accept the quirk as a feature, not a bug) then fast level progression becomes an exceedingly robust argument. See for yourself - make a scatter diagram of HP vs XP. Clerics are the best at levels 2-5, then are overtaken by fighters, but they are always neck and neck. d4 thieves are as good as dwarves. Then halflings. Elves are on the bottom with magic-users not much better. If you switch thieves to d6, they become the best in the game by a long shot.Zizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01426256518106173744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8267677579874715622.post-2531949129297429902013-10-21T18:12:20.194-07:002013-10-21T18:12:20.194-07:00Labyrinth Lord gives normals 1d4, so I assume mold...Labyrinth Lord gives normals 1d4, so I assume moldvay does the same. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8267677579874715622.post-79030602138644547222013-10-21T09:43:21.461-07:002013-10-21T09:43:21.461-07:00Grumble grumble grumbleGrumble grumble grumbleTimrod https://www.blogger.com/profile/15308269015770538709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8267677579874715622.post-50476351814794067512013-10-20T14:40:28.068-07:002013-10-20T14:40:28.068-07:00I don't think your original post was weak - gi...I don't think your original post was weak - given the Holmes reliance on d6 (esp. for Normal Man), I totally see where you're coming from. <br /><br />If anything, this discussion shines a light on Holmes' antiquated notions on hit dice and how Moldvay ushered in a new era of hit dice clarity with his sparkling insight. Erin Smalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16085303583608172242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8267677579874715622.post-59888263407249565382013-10-19T23:00:57.763-07:002013-10-19T23:00:57.763-07:00Thanks Philip for uncovering that tidbit! Nice wo...Thanks Philip for uncovering that tidbit! Nice work.Timrod https://www.blogger.com/profile/15308269015770538709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8267677579874715622.post-68728278240589537322013-10-19T23:00:12.748-07:002013-10-19T23:00:12.748-07:00No probs E. Your comment made the weakness of my ...No probs E. Your comment made the weakness of my original post obvious; I appreciate the editorial insight.Timrod https://www.blogger.com/profile/15308269015770538709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8267677579874715622.post-29251848976431486782013-10-19T16:21:11.948-07:002013-10-19T16:21:11.948-07:00Hey Chucker,
Good post, and I'm happy to be t...Hey Chucker,<br /><br />Good post, and I'm happy to be the spark that sets your readers ablaze with furious debate. <br /><br />After I commented on your <a href="http://unfrozencavemandicechucker.blogspot.com/2012/11/d4-thieves-can-suck-it.html" rel="nofollow">original post</a>, I thought I might have taken my example <i>too</i> far. I agree with you that my specifics could be the backstory for a <i>particular</i> thief, but not all thieves. My bad.<br /><br />My example was a single instance of a broader concept, which is that, IMC, thieves (rogues) are a sort of "middle-ground" class between a normal guy and an actual hero (ie., warrior, priest, or mage). I'm playing B/X here, and Moldvay Basic put Normal Human at 1d4 hit points (B40). So the thief as a 'tweener with d4 HD was like, you have better skills than the Average Joe, but you aren't better at hit dice. <br /><br />That said, I did create some new thief-like classes in my B/X game that went with d6 HD because they were a little more "fighty." So I can see your point.<br /><br />Might be cool to let the player choose d4 or d6 during character gen - d4 gets you sneaky and tinker bonuses, while d6 gives you climby, stabby bonuses.Erin Smalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16085303583608172242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8267677579874715622.post-59554036982653282572013-10-18T18:20:41.711-07:002013-10-18T18:20:41.711-07:00One other thing in Holmes about "normal peop...One other thing in Holmes about "normal people" HD: the pirates in the sample dungeon, room M, "...are normal men (1 6-sided hit die)."Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05308567762813623467noreply@blogger.com