So I just downloaded the (free!) Delving Deeper pdfs and I gotta' give it 5 enormous thumbs up for being the first OSR scion that I'm aware of that has bothered to include a Sample Dungeon in their rulebook. Kudos to the Delving Deeply brain trust for that! Also, I've heard rumors that the Sample Dungeon was lifted from an early draft of Paul Jacquay's Caverns of Thracia module.
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| Take that! Ya buncha old school mo fo's! |
I haven't had time to read much of the rules, but they are pretty comprehensive, covering all the traditional stuff: halflings and saving throws and all that. Plus things like optional thief class, class-switching elves, and d6 hit-dice-for-all which make it pretty clear that this is an OD&D retrobot as opposed to a Holmesian or Advanced D&D rehash, but you probably already knew that. What I haven't figured out in my cursory analysis is what innovations the Delving Deeper crew bring to the table. Or is this just a straight up re-packaging of the Old Game? I wish there was a "Here's what's new" section that hit on all the highlights so that I could get to bed at a reasonable hour tonight.
I think they were trying not to be innovative (course the Thieves don't make sense in that case), but were harkening back to the days of 3LBBs.
ReplyDeleteI don't want to speak for the authors/editors (I just helped with some amateur proofreading), but I believe the intent here is to make the hard-to-find and sometimes vague original rules available and organized so they can be more widely appreciated.
ReplyDeleteNot a reboot, but a restatement of what Swords & Wizardry restated from Holmes+Moldvay+LBBs. Yay! More of the same! With (gasp) a dungeon. Kinda like how the original LBB Supp 2 had, Holmes, Moldvay, S&W Quickstart, etc. have. But its new! (not)
ReplyDeleteThey bring something new in a sense. It's the first of the clones to actually clone some of the important tables and aspects of the original that, for some strange reason, got left out of all the others so far. It's not an original work by any means, but it is probably the closest to the actual OD&D rules yet.
ReplyDeleteWhich aspects were so important that none of the innumerable clones out there missed it?
ReplyDeleteWhich table was so important that none of the clones copied it?
Why is "being close to the actual OD&D" such a marvel?
Holy crap! An actual discussion is gong one here.
ReplyDeleteI feel like this game is maybe 2 or 3 years too late to the table. Being incrementally closer to the original rules doesn't seem like much of a reason to take on a new rules set anymore.
I've moved past replicants and am looking for games that add some new spin to the traditional material. DCC RPG, for example.
And it seems odd that Brave Hafling--already publishers of S&W, the premiere OD&D-ish clone-- would take this on as well.
S&W Quickstart had a sample dungeon? I did not know this.
It's just a simple tool to play D&D in the style of the original rules. It was produced by folks who post over at the OD&D Discussion forums, and that's the target audience. It seems well received there.
ReplyDeleteBrave Halfling doesn't publish S&W anymore after being caught in the middle of a dispute. That's one thing that led to Delving Deeper being produced. That said, BH is giving over support of DD to Immersive Ink (run by DD's editor) after the box set comes out, and instead focusing on producing adventures for the DCC RPG.
Thanks for the background info ZA. So is S&W no mas or has it moved to a new publisher?
ReplyDeleteI haven't really keep up with S&W, but I believe it's going strong. They had a successful Kickstarter over the summer for a new hardback version for distribution. I think Brave Halfling was only publishing the White Box version - not sure what the status of that is these days.
ReplyDeleteBHP published SW White box at one time. Black Blade Publishing had published SW Core, but then Frog Gods took over SW Core and turned it into SW Complete. That is still published. SW White Box is now a free item, not published, but available.
ReplyDeleteIf one forum is the target audience for a 2 year project that is available for sale, that would explain why it sucks.
Where are these free Delving Deeper PDFs you mention? Do you have to be a kickstarter supporter?
ReplyDeleteI loved the Delving Deeper stuff for Labyrinth Lord/SW/OD&D and want to check out the full game, but don't know if I can afford the printed box set before the print run ends. (Will there be another print run later?)
Kickstarter?? HA! Here's where it's at:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.rpgnow.com/product/107184/Delving-Deeper-Reference-Rules-%5BBUNDLE%5D?
As for your other questions, I don't know jack about print runs or all that gobbledy gook. Maybe Zenopus Archives has a better idea; that's where I go for all my useful inforamtion.
The free bundle of the three DD rulebooks can be found on RPGnow or DriveThruRPG. These are the complete rules, but unillustrated except for the covers. If you order the Brave Halfling boxed set you will get the three books reformated as five volumes with illustrations. These are still in layout. Two have been released to purchasers as pdfs.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure, but I don't think Brave Halfling will be selling these in the future, and I don't know what plans Immersive Ink has for print copies. Perhaps a print-on-demand option?
Thanks for the info guys! The BHP product page was a little confusing, I didn't think to check rpgnow.
ReplyDelete